Fourth Amendment

Democrats/left are so against the 2A, that they're willing to sacrifice all our other civil rights, including the 4th.

Democrats/left hate the 2A, so they're willing to sacrifice all our other civil rights (and bill of rights) including the 4th. The 4th protects against illegal search and seizures by requiring probable cause. But "Red Flag" laws and "no fly lists", both violate the 6th and 4th in some seriously questionable ways. Any anonymous claim, and you're out of luck.

ℹ️ Info

~ Aristotle Sabouni
Created: 2019-04-05

Alt-Liberty

Left	Right
We need the power for the government to violate your home, privacy and rights, based on sketchy warrants or secret (no-fly/terrorist) lists that you can't see the details of, issued after some secret tribunal decided you were a threat. Oh, and there's no clear process to appeal those accusations (in the case of no-fly lists). That should make you feel secure in your home, right?	There's no evidence that the red-flag (or no-fly lists) that strip individuals of your constitutional rights, actually does anything good. We have evidence that they get people killed, and certainly make them feel less secure, knowing that at any time, for unknown reasons, they might be red-flagged -- and the accusation of threat to public safety will outweigh your civil rights. That's what governing by fear would look like.

❝ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ❞
~ Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution ℹ️ 1789

Who needs to feel secure in their homes, when anyone can accuse anyone else of being a risk, put you on a list and a government bureaucrat will sign off on it?

And how do you get off that error-riddled list? It doesn't matter, because guns are scary.

Basically, anyone can claim you're dangerous and the storm-troopers will come and endanger you or your family if you resist, and you can try to sort it all out later. If you try to discuss/argue/debate, you're obviously an extremists/terrorists/Trump supporter, and should be on one of those lists. And that's getting dangerously close to what a Police State looks like. And Democrats are for both Red Flag Laws and No Fly Lists that do this. If you try to discuss/argue/debate, you're obviously an extremists/terrorists/Trump supporter, and should be on one of those lists.

Things to note:

There have already been a few deaths, when people resisted (after not knowing what was going on). Someone kicks in your door without due process, and you defend yourself (even stupidly), and the state and Democrats want to blame you for the death? That doesn't sound like the values America was founded on to me.
A 2019 study^[1] by John Lott found red flag laws have no significant effect on murder, suicide, the number of people killed in mass public shootings, robbery, aggravated assault, or burglary. But they might actually increase rapes.
This gets worse when you look at using the error filled No-Fly lists or Terrorist Watch Lists to block gun sales, or allow these sort of red flag bans.

But if your motivation is feelings and not thinkings, and hating on boom-sticks and those that like them, then oh well. You can't make omelets without breaking eggs. To the left, you're the eggs.

🗒️ Note:
If there are checks and balances in place, I think in some extreme cases, this should be allowed. But that would involve: open and objective standards for what constitutes a viable immediate threat auditable public records of the entire proceedings ways to eliminate the judge, police for abusing these procedings severe civil and criminal liabilities for anyone making false or exaggerated claims So far, none of those checks/balances has been advocated or implemented by the gun-grabbers and authoritarians behind these laws. Which is what the real red flag is.

No Fly Lists for gun owners[edit source]

Main article: No Fly Lists for gun owners

The left demands that we close the “insane” loophole that allows people on the No Fly List to buy guns. And goes so far as to call it “insane” that we allow it. The problem is that the error rate on that list is high, and there's never been a mass shooter on the list.