Solar Power

If solar worked well, you wouldn't need subsidies. There's a lot of flim-flam and cooking the books. Different "Solar Power" has different issues: centralized (big plant) or distributed (residential) solar power. But there's a lot of flim-flam in what the cost/benefits are. It is not as green as the proponents pretend, it wouldn't need subsidies if it was cheaper, and it has no reliability unless it has backup plants that aren't "Green". So I debunk some of the lies (exaggerations). ℹ️ Info           ~ Aristotle Sabouni Created: 1984-06-15

Energy Costs

The "it's cheaper" argument falls on its face, on the individual transactions, but more so at scale. (They're losing money with every kilowatt, but trying to make it up in volume).

If Solar is so great, then why did energy costs go up where it's used the most? Why isn't it used more (often it's just 1-2% of total energy)? The countries with the most Solar production (as a percent of power used) are places like Italy (7.5% of consumption), Germany (6.5%), Spain (3.2%), Denmark (2.8%), France (1.6%). and U.S. (1.4%).

If Solar is cheaper then when you look at costs per/KWh, there should be a nice correlation in price to reflect the savings. But the inverse is close to the truth. Italy ($.21), Germany ($.31), Spain ($.23), Denmark ($.31), France ($.17). and U.S. ($.12). Wait, that's the exact opposite of proof that solar drives down costs. Of course some of that is because Solar is such an anemic percent of their electric generation, and some is because of taxes. And the reason why energy taxes are higher, is to subsidize the cost of building all that solar (and other "renewables). So France has cheaper electricity than its neighbors, not just because of less Solar, but because so much more of their electricity is generated by Nuclear or other power. Also, because of their higher population densities, their distribution systems should make their energy much cheaper than ours -- but yet, it is more expensive.

PragerU
Can We Rely on Wind and Solar Energy?

Total renewable energy consumption by country: Italy (17% - mostly hydroelectric ), Germany (34% - mostly wind), Spain (43% - mostly wind), Denmark (57% - virtually all wind), France (20% - mostly hydroelectric). and U.S. (12% - mostly biofuel/biomass). Are you noticing that Solar isn't the top renewable energy in any country, even ones that are heavily invested in renewables? Are you saying all of them are choosing more expensive (and often less reliable) wind? Of course hydroelectric and bio-forms are both more reliable, which is why the U.S. and others pick them first. But that too belies the whole myth that solar is cheaper.

🗒️ Note:

One of the many reasons the Europeans are so ignorant about energy prices is because some of it is hidden from them. Like in Germany (and elsewhere) they are income taxed to death, and some of that tax goes into subsidizing their own consumer electricity costs. So their bills they see have price/rate caps (for some people), to make it look like they're paying less. But as a country, they're paying it, just out of their taxes/paychecks and not on their bills. It's anti-transparency in government, also called Socialism.

Not only that, but this whole correlation between energy costs and solar, correlates not only internationally, but intra-nationally (it varies by state). While the national average is about $.12/KWh nationally, in free America like Louisiana it is $.07-09, Idaho $.08-.10, Texas $.09-.11, it's cheaper. And in places that put in force fake cap-and-trade and/or state solar subsidies like California is $.16-.18, Connecticut $.18-.21, Hawaii $.26-.29 -- basically, doubling the price to subsidize their solar (and renewables).

There's also a secondary flim-flam going on in California (and states like it). Cali loves to cut its domestic production and go renewable (like Solar), so they get to claim they're greener based on how much of their domestic energy is produced by green technologies. But the truth is they then reduced base capacity. When the days are cloudy or not windy, what do they do? They buy electricity from states further away (often running oil or coal). The truth is they replaced local NG or Nuclear, etc., with remote coal/oil (at least part of the time), which doesn't average out to be nearly as green as their voters/rubes think it is. And they have to pay a premium to ship in power from other states when theirs isn't working. All this jacks up the prices to California consumers, and increases the actual total pollution or CO2 per KWh (at least part of the time). But since it exported that pollution (CO2) to other states, and their base is gullible enough that they don't understand that they've been had, it's still a win for the politicians or the green-energy kooks that care about their religion more than the math, logic or economics of what's really happening.

🗒️ Note:

There's another gotcha game going on -- renewable energy drives up the costs of regular energy, to make the difference seem smaller than it really is. Imagine this: you have a Natural gas (NG) power plant, it's reliable and produces 1GW. You add a Solar Plant (SP) that produces 1GW, but it's unreliable. You pass a regulation/law that says people should use the Solar power first. So when the sun is out, the NG plant still has to be there (and usually running because of spool up/down times), so it is producing wasted electricity that no one is buying. But you need it for off peak times, and when the clouds are out -- then it gets to sell it's electricity. Since creating a peak power plant encroached on the reliable (NG) plants sales cycle, that means the cost of maintenance and operations for the NG plant is higher, and they have to pass that on to consumers. Even if waste electricity is still being produced. Solar raised the price of operations or electricity from the NG plant, by not being reliable. The NG plant is still burning CO2, just the electricity isn't being used (or is being captured in storage, which is less efficient than using it is). There's a little more nuance, in that you can build a fast spool plant, and bring it up/down quicker (called a Peaking Power Plant) -- but that's still new infrastructure to replace perfectly good infrastructure you already had. And fast spool plants run less efficiently. Whether you use Base load, Peaking or Load Following Power Plants, either way building two plants to replace one (or using one at less than full capacity) is a waste -- and required so that it can backup the Solar plant. Any of which cost you in money, time, CO2, pollution, and you don't really come out ahead (or much less than was promised). But if the politicians and polemics duped the gullible rubes into thinking they did something for the environment, and you get to jack up their prices for the privilege of being green, that's what really counts, isn't it?

Also

• Solar Energy Return - Swiss study finds solar (photovoltaics) consumes more energy to produce than its lifetime energy production, with an ERoEI of 0.8. Unless it's a remote telephone on a hiking trail or a blinking buoy, solar is a joke. ~ Peter St Onge
• Solar Hidden Costs - With most power plants you have a pretty simple equation, the simplified version would be: Base energy costs = infrastructure costs + fuel + maintenance. With solar the true equation would be: Base energy costs = costs of solar + overcapacity + storage + backup power plant for when you have two cloudy days in a row.
• Solar Roads - Around 2007 there was a ton of hype about the greatest new path to Green Utopia: Solar Roads. Imagine if the roads were solar panels, producing more power than they consumed? You could capture all that wasted space for low-energy solar power, and it would be great. The detractors warned that it'd be a disaster. Guess who was right, progressives or cynics?
• Solar Subsidies - If Solar was cheaper, then it wouldn't need subsidies to get people to buy it. Anyone could see that the benefits would outweigh the costs without them, and there would be widespread adoption. In other words, the fact that you have to subsidize it to get people to buy it, is proof that the economics aren't there to do it without subsidies.

Conclusion

Whenever the advocates claim how much cheaper solar is, I ask them to show their work. I can be convinced... show me the math that shows where Solar + Batteries + backup plant (sans subsidies) is cheaper than just the backup plant + fuel costs (per KWh), and I’m all ears. But to date, no one has been willing to do so.

To be fair, I've only been trying to find an honest solar power advocate since Jimmy Carter first got enamored with Solar during the oil crisis in the 1970's. I can't even find one that will admit any point against them without changing the topic. But if they can't do that, they prove they're not yet up for a big-boy discussion on the topic.

If Solar was so great, then why don't governments buy into the hype and invest into it more, for all those savings? The biggest countries are at 7%, and that's because Italy has less industry than say Germany (6.5%) or France (1.6%).

So the emotions and dishonesty of the Solar advocates make me want to spoon feed them their medicine (called math/logic) until they grow. Face it, if you have to lie for a cause and you can't admit uncomfortable truths, then you just don’t have a good cause. (Or you're not a good person).

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🔗 More

Government This is looking at Government from an American, Libertarian, and idealistic PoV, that many foreigners will not understand.

Environment I'm pro-environment myself, just anti-environmental-scarism.

Barack Obama A list of issues, articles and scandals that pertain to Barack Obama.

TBD List all the articles that have work to be done on them.

Government Waste Government putting the burden of waste on the taxpayers back. Good intentions aren't good outcomes.

Green Energy The left believes that Green Energy exists, it's cheaper, and could provide all our power needs. Pure ignorance.

🔗 Links

• http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418263/germanys-green-power-program-crushes-poor-robert-zubrin
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2016/04/03/californias-growing-imported-electricity-problem/#36be2d934469
• Here's an article on Ivanpah's excessive use of Natural Gas (for when the sun isn't shining):
  • http://www.pe.com/2015/10/19/solar-power-desert-plant-has-pollution-problem/
  • The way California regulations work is that it's cheaper to run your own local inefficient generators than pay the penalties for not producing power: so many green sites build on-site natural gas or oil backups, for when the sun is out. And that means the biggest solar plants in the state, are also the biggest natural gas consumers in the state. Not as green as you think, huh? But since Greens are rubes, they either don't know, or don't care -- their agenda is more important than reality.
• Thermal Solar does the same thing. When the sun isn't out, they use natural gas to heat up what the sun would have -- thus it becomes a natural gas plant. So it's not really a Solar plant, it's a hybrid plant with some propaganda attached.
  • http://www.pe.com/.../solar-power-desert-plant-has.../
• Charts like this one show that Natural Gas consumption hasn't been going down as more Solar has come on line, at least partly because natural gas is backing up the solar: Electricity Generation

Fake News

Here's some articles that exemplifies the kind of dishonest reporting done by either idiots or frauds (and the partisans that regurgitate those links). It looks at the costs of electric generation without all the things above like what it take to overcome renewable energies inherent intermittency. That stuff might be enough to fool the gullible or partisan (of folks named Tim Oey), but now that you know the basics, you should be able to understand the flim-flam. If you want to:

• https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-2017/
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2018/01/13/renewable-energy-cost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#16196cf04ff2

Tags: Government  Environment  Obama  TBD  Waste  Green Energy