Fascism came from Socialism, called themselves socialists, and acted like Socialists. Some pretend they are "right wing". | Fascism the left believes that while the National Socialists Workers Party contained Socialism in the name, thought and deed, they all came from Socialism, Stalin thought they were socialists, that doesn't mean they were real socialists. (The no true Scotsman fallacy). And if they weren't Socialists, then they must be "right wing". |
~ Aristotle Sabouni
Created: 2019-06-02
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Fascism is overloaded (means different things to different people/groups)[1], with a brutal history, so no one wants to be associated with it. Thus the side that it came from is going to do everything they can to obfuscate and pretend it came from "others". But fascism is more than an ad hominem attack: we can clarify conflicting meanings, and look at real history and motives. Just know that while some of us can handle the truth, reasonable intellectuals aren't usually found on internet forums or Facebook feeds.
| Left |
Right |
| Fascism is a right-wing ideology, and the Republicans are fascists. (Other than they have nothing in common, weren't conservative, traditionalist, for individualism, separation of powers, they still had virtually nothing in common with the American right: ideologically). Fear the right, they're literally Hitler. |
The National Socialists were a branch of crony-socialism and unionism called Syndicalism, they were anti-banking, believed in big-central government, high regulation and taxation, collectivism, central planning, social programs, they were for BDS (Boycott, Divest and Sanction the Jews), and for gun-control. You can have a hard time telling one of their speeches from the far left. Really hard. |
- When Marx's Communism (revolutionary socialism) failed to deliver on its promises, the far-left ideologies started fracturing. One branch believed that instead of having disruptive revolutionary socialism and killing all who opposed them (called Marxism/Communism), they could get to socialism incrementally by temporarily allowing private business, as long as it was doing what the authoritarian/state dictated. They also believed that between full Socialism (the state owning all property), and capitalism (individuals owning all the property) was their Third Position: where business and private property was allowed, if it was in service of the state.
- They saw themselves as moderate Progressive Democratic Socialists who didn't need to seize ownership of the means of production and all property rights, as long as controlling them through taxes/regulation/laws/intimidation (political correctness) was working.
- They believed that Socialism/collectivism (state planning and control) lead to better organization, output, social justice -- thus their new model was more advanced than western liberalism (individualism and traditionalism).
- This was often what their long speeches and ceremonies were about: the superiority of their beliefs in their collective, and attacking those that didn't agree. (In Germany, the superiority of the collective tied in with the Law of Jante, racial/anti-semitic spin). Omit the racist elements, and Hitler/Il Duce speeches would be right at home at an Occupy, Black Lives Matters, or Bernie Sanders rally.
- Their symbol is a bundle of sticks tied together (often with an axe in the middle) representing "all of us are stronger than any of us" and collective power[2]. (Others often used a bundle of arrows lashed together, representing the same things).
- Their philosophy, origins and leadership, all came from the left: Socialist, Unions (Syndicates), progressivism, haters of existing society (and especially its bourgeois aspects: "eat the rich").
- Fascists despised the status quo and were not attracted by a return to bygone eras (conservatism), they were about moving forward and having hope and change (e.g. the opposite of right-wing movements).
- They had nationalistic tendencies of anti-immigrant/anti-competition for labor as many left-wing movements of the day did.
- They frequently used pseudo-science to rationalize their quest for power (the Green New Deal of their day was Eugenics and the Gini Coefficient). They say global problems that could be fixed with top-down command-economies being governed by a "brain trust" of political elites.
The only way to claim fascism was right-wing is to ignore all those ways that they are left wing, to misunderstand or use inverted measures of right/left, or to myopically measure based on some other obscure right-left dimensions that the general public doesn't think of (to intentionally mislead them). Thus those who claim fascism is right-wing, virtually always fall somewhere on the fool<->fraud spectrum.
| π Antifascism, ESG and the left |
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- Fascism is a set of policies/government/regulations where you're only allowed property rights/liberty if you're servicing the public good (as defined by autocratic politicians/elites).
- The consensus: Fascism is bad. The lack of limits on authority means they often entropy into VERY bad places.
- The left: we agree -- that's why we want a set of policies/government/regulations where you're only allowed property rights/liberty if you're servicing the public good (as defined by autocratic politicians/elites)... but this time, we're doing it in the name of anti-fascism, or the environment, or social justice. (See what we did there?).
In either the private sector becomes a proxy for government policies -- thus diet coke + deadlypoison is still poison. The left: yes, but this poison tastes better going down and has 1/3 less calories than regular poison.[3] |
Fascism β’ [14 items]
| Ukraines Supreme Court
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| Ukraine's Supreme Court has upheld a law that equates Communism to Nazism, and bans the dissemination of its symbols. The law has prompted angry protests from Moscow, but the court said the "communist and Nazi regimes" used similar methods of "implementing repressive state policies, "and attacked "freedom of the press, opinion, or conscience."
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| Democratic National Socialism
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| Babylon Bee hits the satire out of the park by claiming the Nazi's want to be called the Democratic Nazi's now, as if the word democratic makes it all better. Democratic Racism, Democratic Censorship, Democratic Genocide, Democratic Rape, which of those things is made better by putting Democratic in front of it?
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| Democratic Socialism
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| The Democratic Socialists had their convention, and people were getting triggered by the use of gendered pronouns, and the "tactical" use of the term "democratic" as a way to market the socialist ideology to Americans. Yet no one objected to use of the term "comrade", despite those most associated with the term having killed 50 million people last century.
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| Digital Kristallnacht
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| Under the urging of Biden administration and supporters, Social Media enacted Digital Kristallnacht: ripping through 7,000 Conservative individuals, digital businesses and communities on Social Media, breaking windows, banning, and blocking, in order to harass and ban them, all in the name of faux healing and unity.
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| European Totalitarianism
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| European intolerance for others stems from classisim, racism, and other bigotry, and empowers totalitarianism to fix it. The mid-17th century was the transition from classist feudalism (peasant and nobility) to nation states (government and workers). Their disdain for capitalism held them back, and lead to the rise of Hitler.
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| Fallacies about Fascism
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| Fallacies: "Fascists aren't Socialists", "That wasn't true socialism", "The other side is worse", "But Fascists and Communists fought", "National Socialism isn't left wing", and so on.
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| Fascism's History
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| Fascism is a branch of Socialism, and Socialism goes back thousands of years (Mazark, Mauryan, Greek comedy Assemblywomen). Tribalism is often a form of Socialism. So it is the oldest, most tried, and most failed political system in the world. Fascisms modernization by allowing SOME free market (in services to the collective), didn't fix the fundamental flaws.
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| Fascist Leaders
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| When you look into any of the leaders or voices in the fascist movement, they were all Socialists. They varied from Marxists, Leninists, or branches and factions -- but they were a pro-union, workers movements, whose rhetoric was virtually indistinguishable from other socialists unless you were deep in the weeds of how to govern to achieve socialist nirvana.
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| Is Socialism left-wing or right-wing?
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| Some claim, "Socialism/Communism is a left wing ideology", not in the U.S., but in Europe, kinda. There are many ways to measure left/right, so first you have to define which you're using. Then you need to decide if you're talking theoretical Socialism, or Socialism in practice? In theory, it's egalitarian: in practice it must be authoritarian.
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| Isn't fascism a right wing ideology?
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| In Europe and America, left and right are reversed. Conservatism in Europe means going back to Monarchies (Authoriatian), in Ameirca it means going back to less governemnt (Libertarian). By European standards, Fascism, Socialism and Communism are right wing. By American standards, they are left wing. These terms don't translate as well as some people think.
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| Nationalism
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| The left spits "Nationalism" like it's a bad thing. There's Tribalism, Nationalism, and Internationalism (globalism). I find nationalism the least offensive and most tolerant of the three: the former has no tolerance for people outside their tribe/clique, the latter has no room for people outside their ideology.
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| Political Spectrum
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| Left or right wing mean different and often opposing things in the U.S. versus the rest of the world, or depending on who you are talking to. So I want to know, on which spectrum are they talking about, or at least what do they mean by that. Especially when the terms can change to mean, "anything I don't like".
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| Road to Serfdom
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| Nobel Economist details the origins of leftist movements: what motivates them, and how does it play out. More sterile and academic than Orwell's 1984, but also looking at causes and methods more than just outcomes. A must read for anyone wanting to have an informed opinion on the topic of Capitalism or the leftist ideologies (Communism, Socialism, Fascism).
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| Third Position
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| Communism was all property is communal. Capitalism was all property is private/individuals. Fascism was the Third Position between Communism and Capitalism; that companies/individuals could retain property rights on loan from government (collective) as long as they were serving the interests of the collective. Proxies for the state.
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The following points never get addressed by those that call Fascist/Nazi's right-wing and ignoring the left-wing alignment:
- The "right" values individualism which was opposed by fascists.
- The progressive movement of the 30's actively supported the National Socialists and other fascists, because their ideological alignment.
- Modern progressivism value collectivism and statism, which is aligned with fascism in the following areas:
- regulatory fascism; more government control, pro-centralized authoritarianism (federalism), a coupling of government and business (like healthcare or green energy), high regulation/tax state, that picks winners and losers.
- economic fascism (against capitalism): being anti-bankers and anti-rich
- anti-libertarian fascism: willing to sacrifice free speech for a good cause (safe spaces, speech codes, persecuting climate heretics), being anti-individual and willing to give up 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th amendment rights with regards to gun-control.
- Even the techniques and rhetoric used to rise to in power; appeals to youth, pro-change, pro-government, pro-authoritarian (to protect us from industrialists), big symbolism, the use of propaganda (and vilification of the opposition / "the big lie"), control of the media (suppression of free speech and gun rights), intimidation (political correctness), and soaring rhetoric speeches that brought political prominence to Obama, Occupy and Black Lives matter (as well as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders), is nearly identical to these same techniques used by Hitler/Mussolini in their rise and retention of power/popularity.
Thus the right (in America) sees fascism as a left wing movement for many valid reasons.
However, our progressives see the fascists were nationalist (patriotic), highly militaristic/imperialist and culturalist/racist (pro-eugenicists) that helped motivate the fascists. All true, but narrow definitions of what fascists stood for, and missed points like:
- the Italian fascists weren't racist, the French weren't fascist but were racists) -- little correlation
- the American progressive left (at the time) was racist, militaristic, nationalistic: more than the right was
- even today, progressives are selectively all of them, their just blind to their own flaws:
- affirmative action is racism to try to make up for an "injustice", just like the Nazi's did against the Jews. Favoring one group over the others (for whatever reasons) is the ethic -- changing which groups are favored and why, doesn't change the ethic.
- community organization and government social involvement programs is the same means as the brown shirts
- Super-nationalism (U.N.) and multiculturalism are substitutes for the old-Nationalism (a subtle retargeting, not complete flipping of ideology). Whether we use our military directly, or advocate giving its power to the super-state (U.N.), doesn't change the imperialistic nature of imposing our will on other sovereign nations. Whether I kill you, or pay someone else to, the abstraction shouldn't lessen the crime/morals.
So the rationalizations are the same, even if the victims/degrees are different. Their motives for sacrificing our liberty to Federal Government is irrelevant to the argument of authoritarianism, is still authoritarian. In the end, we had individualism before, and the progressives want to displace it with authoritarian-federalism (or super-statism) -- and if the individual doesn't fit the new collective, they lose.
Most of all, it is nearly impossible to point out that someones views are economically fascist without them taking it personally and their emotions taking over. To them it's a personal attack, and they shut down the reasoning centers of their brains, and the visceral and emotion parts take over. (You called me a name!). Thus, I find these discussions too intellectual for most to consider rationally. By the points they care about, the similarities to their side doesn't matter, and the softer similarities with the other side matter more to them. In their provincial enclaves, and by their ethnocentric (and egocentric) view of the world, they're not fascist -- and anyone that says otherwise can be ignored. And they will still use the term freely to describe those they don't agree with, in the name of open-minded tolerance.
π More
Politics
Power relations between individuals or groups, such as the distribution of resources or status.
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Terms
We need to agree on what terms mean. This used to be easy, before SJW's/Marxists started Orwelling our language.
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The Left Lies
When the truth disagrees with your agenda, you can grow (change) or lie. The left usually chooses the latter.
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Alt-History
This is a list of the alternate history that the left uses to twist perception and thus twist reality.
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Wikipedia
Wikipedia is both hit and miss. Most articles are pretty good, but there's a leftist bias amongst too many articles.
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History
Tales on the parts of history that have been ignored, suppressed, or lied about.
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Thought
Things that make you go, βhmmmβ¦β, or at least made me write about it.
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Socialism
Socialism has been the most tried, and most failed government system, next to it's older brother (Tyranny).
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Issues
These are issues that people fight over... current events or consistent divisions.
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Germany
I have a lot of family in Germany, and it's one of the nicest countries I've visited. This is often about the other stuff.
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Party of fear
The lefts two biggest tools are envy, fear, and finger pointing to distract; used to manipulate their constituents.
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π Links
More Links
Books on fascism
- Liberal Fascism: The Secret HIstory of the American Left: http://bit.ly/17AZgT8
- Dinesh D'Souza: The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left
Tags: Politics Terms Left Lies Alt-History Wikipedia History Thought Socialism Issues Germany Party of fear
